


Questions about m/m fan fiction and feminism [FOR YOU TO ANSWER]

by CaptainMercy42



Series: TV and the female [3]
Category: Supernatural
Genre: Essay, Feminism, M/M, feminist supernatural, please comment, thought provoking
Language: English
Status: Completed
Published: 2013-11-20
Updated: 2013-12-05
Packaged: 2018-01-02 04:06:16
Rating: Teen And Up Audiences
Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings
Chapters: 4
Words: 2,616
Publisher: archiveofourown.org
Story URL: https://archiveofourown.org/works/1052326
Author URL: https://archiveofourown.org/users/CaptainMercy42/pseuds/CaptainMercy42
Summary: <blockquote class="userstuff">
              <p>This is not a fic.  This is a discussion about what makes m/m fics so appealing to women, and the pros and cons of this phenomenon.</p><p>There is a link at the end for responses, or you can comment.  I'm looking for other people's take on the matter.</p>
            </blockquote>





	1. Chapter 1

I was thinking about Becky from Supernatural because I’ve been having some pretty epic Becky moments while trying to describe the phenomenon that is slash fiction to innocent bystanders and acquaintances who now see me in an entirely different and probably unflattering light.

The problem is, I don’t want to be like Becky- at least, not scripted Becky.  I want to be a fan-fiction version of Becky.  Better Becky.  I want to unabashedly get-off on the idea of an illicit love affair between two beautiful guys, and THEN I want to have the self-awareness to ask WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING TO ME?  

I’ve got her enthusiasm, that’s for sure.  The fact that fan fiction exists is AMAZING to me.  I’ve told everyone.  I’ve told my parents.  I’ve had flashbacks to college classes that I half-slept-through while my professor gleefully tried to get us to discuss the theory that technology is getting sleeker because men are trying to replace women with it (the Terminator films illustrate this perfectly, BTW).  I was a jerk kid back then and I was trying my hardest to sleep through as many theoretical discussions as possible.  NOW I have to hold back every day from Skyping my former teachers and being like “OMG M/M FAN FICTION WTF!”

HERE’S MY QUESTION:   **Why on earth are you** (a female) **really into this idea of two guys** (who aren’t even necessarily gay) **banging the crap out of each other** (sorry, no pun intended) **with or without the accompaniment of an angsty love story?**

Possible answer #1: The girl who is enjoying this fiction is so petty and jealous that she doesn’t enjoy the thought of another girl hooking up with either of the dreamy male leads.  So she couples them.  Easy-peasy.  And also, twice the penis.

[ _THIS IS A SHITTY ANSWER.  This answer perpetuates a negative cultural stereotype that women are catty and can’t get along with other women without feeling threatened by the “prettier” woman’s good looks.  Unfortunately, I think the Becky character is penned with this as her sole motivation.  Boo.]_

Possible answer #2:  A love/sex story that does not involve any women gives the female reader the option to identify with either/ both parties, emotionally.  Furthermore, both parties are coming to the relationship from a place of cultural power, neither one of them bringing any pre-supposed physical or emotional weakness based on their gender, which the lady-reader finds empowering.

[ _THIS IS A WAY BETTER ANSWER.  When a writer pens a female character, that woman shows up on the blank page with a biological back-story.  Unless it’s science fiction and they’re all living on the moon and women can lift just as much as men can lift and balance their ‘crazy’ hormones with some kind of pill, writers are gonna write women a certain way and women are going to begrudgingly accept it because arguing with a writer about the “science” behind fictional characters takes all the fun out of everything._

_If this is the case, then eliminating the female leaves the lady-reader free to jump onto the shared-emotion roller-coaster of the white male (in the case of Supernatural slash)- and what a ride!  Not only does she get to find herself getting lots of empathetic feels from BOTH characters (or more if you make it a love triangle), but the writer gets to write traits, feelings and vulnerabilities more often associated with a woman’s side of the relationship into BOTH characters - therefore rendering them as COMPLETE AND WELL ROUNDED HUMAN BEINGS. **[FUTURE FOLLOW-UP: Is this awesome or should we be upset about it?]**_

Possible answers #3 & #4:  Reading is an escape, and the lady-reader wants to experience what she can’t have- effortless abs and a penis.  Also, in the case of gay-panic fics (where one or both characters starts out thinking he’s totally hetero and then gets won-over/ has an identity crisis when the bromance gets all hot and steamy) the lady-reader gets some feels out of the old why-won’t-he-notice-me-girl-next-door trope, with the added benefit of both parties being undeniably gorgeous and sexy the whole time (meaning neither one of them needs to undergo a physical makeover at the hands of some smartly-fashioned frienemies).

[ _These answers are okay.  Maybe they cover a portion of the “why m/m, why?” question.  Maybe society has been spending too much time harping about how Barbie’s figure is unattainable when we’re really all just gazing longingly at Ken and sighing about what will never, ever be.  I think all of this is valid - but I don’t think it is reason enough for the enormity and diversity of m/m fiction.]_

In summation, I am all for writing a fucking book about answer #2 because it’s fucking fascinating.  The biggest issue would be that I haven’t decided whether it’s overall, a positive or negative thing.  

On one hand, it’s amazing that women have discovered a way to share their thoughts on sexuality with other women.  It’s empowering to know that fan fiction doesn’t have to be a completely anonymous venture.  Communities develop and friendships emerge and pieces of creative writing are produced that can be interpreted and psychoanalyzed more easily and with more depth than any dream.  Seriously.  Somebody go get me a time capsule that I can dump everything I’ve read into.  The aliens need to see this.  Start reading now.  It won’t take you more than a couple hours to pick up on the reoccurring themes, and many more hours to figure out what makes the most popular works successful.  We’ve basically created an encyclopedia of human fantasies, and it’s worthy of being studied and lauded and discussed in grad-school classrooms.  It’s worth so much more to modern womankind, than a silly side-character named Becky who just wants to touch Sam’s chest.  («AHEM they’ve written her all wrong anyway.  Wouldn’t she just want to watch DEAN touch Sam’s chest?»)

ON THE OTHER HAND should we be content that Supernatural and the Supernatural fanfic writers have only figured out how to write a complete and well-rounded male character?  Is our complacency perpetuating the mis/under-representation of women in fiction?  Is this some twisted form of self-loathing (I’m looking at  **you** , everyone who identifies with Dean Winchester [[THE MIRROR]])  I mean, yes, it’s wonderful that we can write a relationship where both parties experience a full range of fears and emotions instead of splitting it like a yin and a yang based on who has a yin and who has a yang.  But is our general rejection of the female genitalia really some form of societal complacency?  Is it?  IS IT??

Thanks for reading.  I’d really love your feedback (ladies - who read/write m/m ((Supernatura)) fan fiction).  I know tumblr doesn’t make it the easiest to wax poetic back at me - so here’s a google form I created.  Please please please.  I used to joke about being the Jane Goodall of fandoms and shipping - but there’s kind of a truth to that because I do a lot of observing and don’t end up ever really interacting with the people I all of the sudden feel so close to.  GET BACK AT ME.  Seriously.  We can be friends.

QUIZ: <https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Nq06SYww3bl08ODeYWE0jQMWa-sHPAddcEouRTrIqVc/viewform>

mybadtvhabit@gmail.com  
[mybadtvhabit](http://tmblr.co/m_NOMp3yRre5RitwQlRMEEQ)


	2. Fear the Alienation of the Hetero Male!

**Summary for the Chapter:**

> One poll response brought up a very good point - goes a bit off the topic of fan fiction and addresses the idea that we have to create this m/m and f/f entertainment for ourselves because mainstream media doesn't want to offend the delicate sensibilities of the hetero male.
> 
> (THOUGH I think that mainstream media does spoon-feed social progress into all of its programming. But their pace might be a result of the FEAR)

Q: So do you think the cultural changes enacted by women publicly sharing their sexuality through fan fiction is revolutionary enough, or should someone be doing more for women in fiction?  
(Short Poll can be found here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Nq06SYww3bl08ODeYWE0jQMWa-sHPAddcEouRTrIqVc/viewform)  
  
A: I think books if they are not censored will find an audience without special help. I think fictionalized m/m and f/f love and sex is still very Taboo in most mainstream media who fear it because of alienation of heterosexual male readers/ viewers. Gay/bi central characters are rare and frightening to heterosexual men because if they identify with the character they fear it means they must also identify with the sexuality. Women are more happy to empathize and not mind or even enjoy a sexuality or gender different from their own. The spread of fanfiction for women by women is a good way to remove stigma from same sex love and gain wider acceptance in the world without the need for help /interference from male dominated media . If there is a demand for female driven m/m fiction it will get written and published without any special action being needed. It’s film and tv that need to push LGBT visibility because it’s only widespread familiarity will that reduce the fear and normalize these characters to nervous male hetro viewers for the benefit of everyone.  
\- kitty

I love you, kitty. Thanks for your input!  
The alienation of the hetero male is something that is feared by all of society, men and women alike, no matter what their sexual preference might be. When I personally write or create something I immediately measure its worth by figuring out who my audience is. If I don’t think that the average hetero male is going to be compelled by my art, then I consider it somehow flawed. THAT’S SO FUCKED UP.

In this case I’m the enemy of progress. I censor myself and I give up on ideas that I don’t feel will be widely accepted (or I squirrel them away for use in fan fiction where the audience is kind and loving and down for whatever). In my daily life I try to avoid giving the impression that I’m some ranting feminist, because once you’re labeled as such, people assume that you are always judging them.

For the record, I am judging society. I am judging America or pop culture or main stream media or just the outdated way we go about raising children into unnecessarily rigid gender roles. I’m certainly not keeping a mental record of all the sexist comments I hear on a daily basis. I don’t have that kind of mental capacity - but also I’M PERSONALLY GUILTY OF SOME OF THEM, THROUGH MY OWN SELF DEPRECATION.

So maybe my new mantra should be “I will no longer fear the alienation of the hetero male.” Maybe instead I should give them a little more credit. The hetero male is a HUGE demographic - and I’m lumping them all together. But according to my staunch “people are people, regardless of gender” convictions there are a bunch of guys out there who think a lot like me. Some of them can probably handle it. A whole bunch of them can probably pick up what I’m putting down. I have to stop shooting myself in the foot with all this self-censorship and just start saying what I’d like to say.


	3. Response to Anna from Poland

**Summary for the Chapter:**

> I recently wrote a couple of essays about women and their relationship with TV and m/m fan fiction. (http://archiveofourown.org/series/63083) One of them explored some reasons I thought women might be SO into reading about m/m couplings, while another outlined my personal belief that maybe women empathize so strongly with Dean Winchester (from Supernatural) that they don’t really need a strong female lead in the show. I also provided a link to a poll where I accept other people’s theories (which are AMAZING and anyone who has taken the time to fill it out is a SAINT - https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Nq06SYww3bl08ODeYWE0jQMWa-sHPAddcEouRTrIqVc/viewform)

 

So Anna from Poland responded to my poll with this:

> …When I’m watching SPN I don’t like seeing Dean (my favourite character) with other girls. Why? Hmm. I have few theories myself :) I’m identifying with him, so since I’m a straight woman, then I’d rather see him with a man?…

It makes so much sense, Anna - but I think there’s more to it than your sexual orientation.  I’ve gotten numerous responses from voracious m/m fic readers and writers who are actually lesbians.  If we are suspending our disbelief enough to see the world through the eyes of the opposite sex then we’re already way out there.  Who says we aren’t just as easily able to suspend our opinions on the laws of sexual attraction as well?

If I identify with the male lead, I want only the best for us (me and him. We’re a team).  If the show had a mind-blowingly awesome female lead, I daresay I might find her to be an acceptable mate for the man I’m living vicariously through.  But the writers of Supernatural are quite adept at boxing up the female characters in a way that makes them sexually unavailable to Dean Winchester (too young, too old, too gay, too wham-bam-thank-you-ma’am).  Instead we’re offered a consistent gaggle of attractive and awesome males.  That’s cool.  I LOVE attractive and awesome males.  Shipping the m/m relationship seems to be the natural progression for Supernatural viewers.

But BOOM, gender-swap-go!

Once Upon a Time viewers have a similar setup between Emma Swan and the Evil Queen.  The writers didn’t write either of them any seriously awesome male counterparts (who didn’t die, and until Hook showed up, I know I know) so a bunch of people started shipping them with each other.  I think the Swan Queen shippers are a huge compliment to the OUaT writers.  You haven’t even written a male lead awesome enough for their perfect babies.  This ship is proof of countless women identifying with a female character and finding that character’s ideal partner in a similarly BAMFy-but-wounded member of the same sex.

I hope future TV programming takes a hint from the success of Once Upon a Time and takes some more risks with the personalities of their female characters.  Once Upon a Time shows us that Women (and men) don’t dislike female characters who are emotionally vulnerable.  I’m going to hazard a guess that women (and men) generally dislike female characters who are shallow and dispassionate, even if said females can karate chop through a wall or shoot really big guns.

Bottom line - give me a BAMF with a gaping hole in their soul, and I’ll be shipping them with the other BAMF whose gaping emotional hole seems like a good fit - regardless of gender.

Is this true for you?


	4. Heterosexist Shipping - a response to lesbiangoggles

**Summary for the Chapter:**

> lesbiangoggles answered: Saying that people started shipping SQ (Swan Queen from Once Upon a Time) because there weren’t any male love interests, so they settled for the same sex ship, is heterosexist.

lesbiangoggles answered: Saying that people started shipping SQ because there weren’t any male love interests, so they settled for the same sex ship, is heterosexist

Hello. Thanks for adding this. You’re right. To say that shipping Swan Queen is simply the result of a lack eligible bachelors would also be implying that once the right guys showed up the hetero shippers would abandon a sinking Swan Queen ship. This obviously is not going to happen. Swan Queen is strong because people who ship it have a serious affinity for the love/hate connection between Emma and Regina. They don’t ship because it is two women or in spite of it. I’m sorry it sounded as if I was suggesting that shippers “settled” for SQ when I was trying to say that as a pairing it blew all the competition out of the water with the complexity and passion of both characters. 

But OUaT itself is guilty of heteronormativity, just like the rest of prime-time TV. It’s not a very aggressive heteronormativity, but more the sins of omission and assumption. All the heterosexual characters (every single character?) are written to be assumed heterosexual until proven otherwise, and past hetero relationships are interpreted as confirmation of a character’s 100% heterosexuality. If it’s important to a fan that they participate in a possibly-canon ship on OUaT, then they’re going to be shipping Emma/m or Regina/m.

In my essays I’m simply sharing the hypothesis that (many? most?) women who participate in the reading, writing and sharing of slash fiction have begun fantasizing in a sexually fluid way in order to create and meditate on the most compelling relationships/ personality pairings possible. This suspension of sexuality is intriguing. Does it lead people to be more open to experiencing more taboo sexual experiences in real life? Is a heterosexual woman’s description of a m/m relationship and/or sexual encounter offensive or insensitive in any way? Is the fan fiction reaction to heteronormative media going change the way show creators write their characters, or the way we interpret them or both? Is re-purposing characters from heteronormative media that we enjoy seeing only perpetuating that form of media?


End file.
